Wally Zahnd on the Spirituality of Virginia Satir

"I have no internal resistance." Wally Zahnd knew Virginia Satir personally — and in this raw, intimate conversation, he opens up about her spirituality, her healing, and why he believes she was as close to Jesus as anyone he's met. In this episode of The Self-Connection Podcast, Tim sits down with Wally Zahnd — a retired social worker, longtime friend and student of Virginia Satir, and author of The Spirituality of Virginia Satir (available here: https://a.co/d/0dyU4r41) — for a deeply personal look at who Satir really was. Wally shares firsthand stories spanning decades: hosting Satir for the Chico tapes, being pulled aside on a staircase and told "I have no internal resistance," watching a packed auditorium overflow because people wanted to be near her, and a breakthrough moment with a teenage boy that reshaped how he understood human goodness.

"I Have No Internal Resistance": Wally Zahnd on the Spirituality of Virginia Satir

Tim Sitt and Wally Zahnd

Together, Tim and Wally explore the big question at the heart of the book: how did the healer heal herself? They trace Satir's roots in a German Lutheran and Christian Science household, her near-death experience as a child, her belief in the "I Am" as the spiritual seed within every person, and why Wally believes comparing her to Jesus isn't blasphemous — it's an honest look at what happens when someone lives fully congruent with love. If you're drawn to the spiritual dimension of Satir's work — beyond technique, beyond theory — this conversation offers a rare, intimate window into her essence. 📖 Get Wally's book, The Spirituality of Virginia Satir: https://a.co/d/0dyU4r41

Timestamps: 0:00 –

Intro 1:23 – Why the spirituality of Virginia Satir matters (Tim's opening reflection)

6:07 – Meet Wally Zahnd

7:26 – Wally's early life and path into social work

9:30 – Building a healthy culture, not just individual change (prison work)

10:36 – Meeting Jack Dennis and connecting with Virginia

12:04 – The Chico tapes — Virginia stays with Wally's family

14:55 – First meeting Virginia

16:09 – The auditorium overflow — "this is really special, this woman"

21:01 – Family reconstruction and the hug on the roadside

26:38 – Carrying her legacy — "you start to levitate"

31:12 – Virginia's childhood illness, deafness, and near-death experience

32:01 – Writing the spirituality book — researching her family background

35:56 – "I was a friend of God since I was 5" — the deathbed document

38:36 – Comparing Virginia to Jesus

42:55 – Family reconstruction and the limits of self-esteem

46:07 – The five stances — leveling as a spiritual journey

50:50 – Defining spirituality — the "I Am

" 53:15 – The seed of goodness within everyone

55:49 – Did Virginia have dark spots?

57:28 – How did the healer heal herself?

1:00:59 – "I have no internal resistance" — the staircase story 1:06:00 – The goodness in everyone — the boy with the axe

1:10:36 – Closing reflections and Virginia's legacy

Melting the Iceberg: Evolving and Expanding the work of Virginia Satir (A dialogue with Tim Sitt)

This is an interview between Tim Sitt and Linda Lucas, Program Director at the Satir Institute of the Pacific (SIP), about Tim’s work and experience with Virginia Satir’s work. We cover a variety of topics such as the impact of Virginia’s work and impact, Congruence, Melting the iceberg, and the metaphor of the tree. This conversation highlights Tim Sitt’s work and an upcoming workshop titled “Melting the Iceberg.” which you can learn more about through the link below:

Melting the Iceberg: Evolving and Expanding the work of Virginia Satir (A dialogue with Tim Sitt)

Tim Sitt and Linda Lucas

https://satirpacific.org/event/melting-the-iceberg-expanding-and-evolving-the-satir-model-through-self-connection/

Satir Institute of the Pacific Facebook https://www.facebook.com/satirinstituteofthepacific

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/satirinstitute/

The Satir Institute also offers free monthly community support meetings: https://satirpacific.org/event/sip-free-community-of-support-meetings/

0-10:00: Self-Connection Meditation 11:00 attempting to reconcile the level of hierarchy and seed. “Our differences are opportunities for growth.” Tim and Linda experienced disagreement and had the opportunity to practice what we had mutually learned about Virginia Satir’s work to help us reconcile those differences.

17:07 How did Virginia Satir’s work impact your life?

21:15 What does Virginia’s work have to offer people today?

23:55 we need new concepts to point to phenomenon and updating language to better point to the aliveness of Virginia’s work.

26:00 a discussion about congruence. Learning to value your nos.

28:25 The metaphor of the tree.

30:15 Virginia writings on Congruence. The universality of human beings which guarantee similarity and differences

. 34:00 - 38:20 til What Tim means by ‘melting the iceberg?”

43:00 a stronger theoretical frame will help people understand Virginia work and to take risks towards growth

45:23 Virginia’s discussion of the pot highlights a time where she defines self-esteem as the content of our consciousness. It is important to remember that the Self is more the space of the container rather than any specific content held within which can change or transform.

46:47 What can communities to express congruence?

48:50 the importance of creating healthy organizations.

Melting the Iceberg Workshop by Tim Sitt Hosted by the Satir Institute of the Pacfiic https://satirpacific.org/event/melting-the-iceberg-expanding-and-evolving-the-satir-model-through-self-connection/

The Self-Connection Podcast S2 E2 In the Here and Now with Victor Yalom

Victor Yalom, PhD, is the Founder, Director of Content and Resident Cartoonist of Psychotherapy.net. He maintained a full-time practice psychology practice in San Francisco for over 25 years, and currently continues to see a small handful of clients, as well as leading psychotherapy and consultation groups. He has conducted workshops in existential-humanistic and group therapy in the US, Mexico, and China. He has produced over 100 training videos in the field of psychotherapy and continues to be inspired the many master therapists he has been privileged to work with, including existential-humanistic psychologist James Bugental, and his father Irvin Yalom. In his spare time he paints, creates metal sculptures, and tries to improve his table tennis game. More information on Victor and his artwork is at sfpsychologist.com.

Please visit www.psychotherapy.net to view the wonderful resources they have there which include over 300 videos of the prominent psychotherapist of the past and present. Think Netflix but for psychotherapist.

You can save $100 dollars off an annual memberships at psychotherapy.net with the discount code : connection100

Rather than having a set agenda for the podcast, Victor offered to have an open ended conversation with me and to explore and learn together, which was very exciting for me. Since the podcast is about connection it was fitting for us to explore topics related to psychotherapy as the content that served as the context for learning about and with each other. 

I experienced Victor as very generous , earnest and supportive conversational partner. There were some touching moments particularly when he reflected on the gifts he received from his mentor, James Bugental. Upon hearing the podcast during editing, I found myself appreciating the mutual energy of gratitude we both had for our respective mentors. Victor helped model some of the concepts we discussed by going into his experience and sharing vulnerably about himself.

The Self-Connection Podcast S2 E2 In the Here and Now with Victor Yalom

Victor Yalom and Tim Sitt

  We start the discussion with me sharing my here and now experience of feeling nervous to speak with him, which is very unusual. I decide to share this straight away and Victor compassionately invites me to explore my experience together. 

2:00 Victor shares the common expectation that a therapist will take away or reduce the experience they are having. Instead he points out that we can be with our experience and learn from it. 

3:00 Tim express gratitude for Victor’s work in making Virginia Satir’s work available on video and subsequent work with other master therapists. 

8:10 Victor reflects that he notices so much in what he’s hearing and noticing with what Tim’s shared that in therapeutic context would be available. He feels that psychotherapy can be a creative artful process.

10:30 Tim poses the question of what aspects of therapeutic skills are relevant for day to day intimate and connective conversations to Victor. 

12:27 Victor reflects that he often asks clients to reflect on what’s happening for them at the head level and heart level. He suggests slowing down and tuning into ourselves and the other person. Attending to the words , and facial expressions of the other person as well as one’s own body and feelings. 

18:40 We talk about what ‘here and now’ means in context of group and individual therapy. Victor shares that he is feeling engaged, and in flow and aware of some vulnerability and a desire to share something of use to the audience. 

21:45 Tim asks about Victor’s connection to James Bugental who was a Humanistic existential psychologist. Victor shares about his meeting and experiences of training with James. 

 . 27:30 Victor reflects on his learnings with James Bugental. He demonstrates and differentiates some of the ideas and techniques from James Bugental’s work such as searching that make it different from normal day to day conversations.

32:20  One of the most powerful words he would say was , “And...”  rather than letting the conversation be a ping pong match.  It reinforces and introduces the idea that there’s always more. This is one of things James used to say, “There’s always more.” Each person is an arena of endless exploration.

34:00 Victor experiential explores his emotions that come up upon his reflects on his relationships with James Bugental. 

37:50  Tim shares a quote from James Bugental 

“ But early on l wanted to change her implicit sense of her task from telling me about herself to expressing herself. That's such an important difference. Then she makes herself an object of description. We're not dealing with a living person. lnformation about her. l don't like to get a lot of information about a client in advance. l want to know are they're reasonably able to maintain, and reality testing is all right, that sort of thing. But too much information will just cloud the screen for me. 

 l need to be as innocent, in a certain way, as l can be for each person. l need to be as innocent, in a certain way, as l can be for each person. To discover this unique person. And that sounds very nice and humanistic, and it is. But the real value is, that way l get to know the living

person, not about a person who has that name.”

39:00 Victor reflects on the therapist role in helping the client to not objectify themselves but to enter more deeply in their experience and to be present (“search process”) 

42:00 James Bugental also talked about ‘resistance’ which is resistance to life. These are coping patterns created for survival, defense mechanisms.  They work for us but also limit us. 

Examples, intellectualizing, or mocking oneself, or hiding emotions. 

Helping clients become more flexible with their coping patterns.

47:00 “inclusion not amputation” another James Bugental quote . He also talked about the co-occuring counter balancing energies of support and encouragement or the ‘backstop’ that urges them forward. 

50: 30  Tim reads a quote by Rollo May and asks for Victors reflections. 

“....and the problem is that psychotherapy becomes more and more a system of gimmicks. People have special ways of doing their own therapy. They learn which particular buttons to push. They're taught various techniques by which they can, so that they can at least cure this isolated symptom or that. And that wasn't the purpose at all, of Freud and Jung and the rest of the really great men who began our field. Their purpose was to make the unconscious conscious. And that's a great--there's a great deal of difference between them.

This was what Freud was setting out to do. It's what Jung is trying to do. It's what Adler and Rank did. These people never talked about these gimmicks. It just didn't interest them. What did interest them was making a new person. You see, the new possibilities come up. Then you have--then you change the person. Otherwise, you change only the way he behaves, only the way he approaches this or that incidental problem. The problem's going to change in six months when he'll be back again for some more so-called therapy.” -Rollo May

52:00 Victor reflects on some of the context surrounding more technique based therapies and the importance of therapist reflecting on their use of self, to sit with difficult emotions, not necessarily always needing to ‘do’ something to the client.  The ability to sit with clients and to be with their emotions. 

58:32 Victor shares about his orientation and perspective towards psychotherapy.

1:03:30 We explore the words. “Self-Connection”

The "Pursuit" of Happiness

The traps of happiness is trying to buy it. Thinking of happiness as a particular psychological state. When we become attached to a particular experience then we can lose sight of our Self. When we become overly attached to material 'things' we forget our own living humanity and perhaps the humanity of others.

The "Pursuit" of Happiness

Tim Sitt

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Isn’t happiness doing a good job?

Falling in love?

Buying a new pair shoes?

People identify themselves and confuse their worth in the emotional currency acquired through these experiences. They do not realize that projecting themselves in a role, possession or another person, they have abandoned themselves and the authentic pathway of Self-Connection, Self-Realization and Self-Actualization.

People come to the false conclusion: “I do X and I feel good. If I was really good and worthy I would feel good all the time.” This has become the epitome of western capitalistic “pursuit'“ of happiness.

I explore two metaphors to simultaneously hold a space for happiness in the temporary sense which occurs at the level of ego and roles and a related dimension of being, our roots, where the existential connection to Self allows for a grounding in our humanity that does not depend on external rewards to be valuable or worthy.

When we can return to our Self, the ground of Being, we let go of attachment to things and material happiness. We reclaim our projected energy and we enter into a state of silence where we are not bought into a delusion of happiness.

A simple reflection on the topic of happiness might be the way you language it.

Do you think about “What makes you happy?” or Who makes you happy?

Do you see yourself as the agent for the creation of happiness? Do you see yourself as capable of creating happiness before an event occurs or possession acquired? Is it possible to nurture positive mind states? The reflection of what and who makes us happy comes down to one’s sense of agency or locus of control. Is it internal or external? What is the relationship between what occurs and what emotional states we create?

The Self-Connection Podcast: S2 E1 With John Banmen and Sharon Loeschen :Creating Context

In this podcast interview, I have the pleasure of speaking with both Sharon Loeschen and John Banmen. Two prominent leaders and teachers of the Satir Model.   Today we explore the topic of context.

The Self-Connection Podcast: S2 E1 With John Banmen and Sharon Loeschen :Creating Context

Tim Sitt

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Sharon has over 4 decades  of experience as a psychotherapist, teacher, and trainer. She is past president of the Virgiania Satir global net work and uses the Satir Growth Model to facilitate learning and healing. She has developed the Satir Coaching and Mentoring Certification program which is being well received around the world.   You can learn more about her by  visiting Satirglobal.org 

She has authored several books: 

Enriching Your Relationship with Yourself and Others: https://satirglobal.org/product/enriching-your-relationship-with-yourself-and-others/

Choosing Your Life Story: Inspirational Stories of Transformations from the Streets of South Central Los Angeles: https://satirglobal.org/product/choosing-your-life-story

John Banmen is one of the foremost experts and teachers of the Satir model. He co-authored the book The Satir Model: Family therapy and beyond and has written, edited many many other books related to Virginia Satir’s work. He was an instructor, associate and Adjunct professor at the university of British Columbia for 21 years. As well as an honorary associate professor at the University of Hong Kong (2000-2004).  He has created training programs in dozens of countries in Asia, Europe South and North America. He provides supervision for counselors, psychotherapist and family therapist.  

I have the honor and privilege of being able to call both of these wonderful people, friends and mentors.

For background, Virginia Satir was one of the founding figures in family therapy. She was born in 1916 and died in 1988.  Her model of therapy has had a major impact on the field of psychotherapy and other fields to this day. Her way of working emphasizes a conscious awareness of how we use ourselves in therapy, the incorporation of the body in the process of therapy, she would have people standing up sculpting their family dynamic with stances, she could emphasis the need for people to orient their bodies, eyes and even touch while communicating, she created dynamic and effective processes for transformational change such as parts party which is similar to internal family systems and family reconstruction which we will talk a bit about in the conversation. Virginia Satir is a giant int he field of therapy , family therapy, couples therapy.  Learning about her work has formed the foundation of how I approach life as human being and in all my professional roles as a therapist, writer.

If you are interested in learning more , I recommend visiting satirglobal.org and reading some other books like :The New Peoplemaking, Making Contact, Conjoint Family Therapy